Pecobians.com :: Even security cams arent secure with google

shantanu · 11 Feb 2005

Just stumbled onto this, to see open security cameras' feeds over the internet just follow these directions:

Find net cams with the following searches:

inurl:"ViewerFrame?Mode="
intitle:"WJ-NT104 Main Page"
inurl:netw_tcp.shtml
intitle:"supervisioncam protocol"

OMG...

Lord PEC · 30 Jan 2005

....

If its for cameras, then I think other accessories aren't safe either.
For instance, printers, they are shared on a very wide scale.... Shocked

shantanu · 11 Feb 2005

yupz...that wud create a havoc...

nmadnani · 14 Feb 2005

It's important to point out that the only reason Google can "see" these images is because it is able to index the webpages that contain these images. If the website prohibited indexing (for example by using a suitable robots.txt), then these images/pages would not have been present in Google's index at all.

In short, Google does not have real time access to any accessories connected to any computer. Printers are completely safe (from access by a Google search, at least) because they are not accessible/controllable from an indexed webpage.

Of course, if it is a device like a networked photocopier, which caches a copy of any xeroxed document to a server which is not secured against google indexing, then people can see what you have copied but they still cannot *access* the photocopier.

shantanu · 11 Feb 2005

well, nitin, u r partly correct...cuz I did have real time access to atleast one cam last night and that was of UTA (University of Texas, Arlington) campus area. It showed me time on the right side and it even matched with what wud have been the time there at that time...
basically a page can stop indexing by using a robots.txt BUT if they are not there then google will cache those things (images in this case) to which google had "real time access" at that particular time. So, that url is what u r after that is there in google's repository. Going to that url will definitely give u the real time images if it is meant to do so...

By indexed webpages, do not think of "cached" webpage, think abt the urls to access these webpages. Now, if these pages were meant to provide access/control over something then they will provide the same to u if they are open (security wise) to let google index them, provided u dont go to the cached versions, but to the actual urls...

nmadnani · 14 Feb 2005

shantanu wrote:

well, nitin, u r partly correct...cuz I did have real time access to atleast one cam last night and that was of UTA (University of Texas, Arlington) campus area. It showed me time on the right side and it even matched with what wud have been the time there at that time...
basically a page can stop indexing by using a robots.txt BUT if they are not there then google will cache those things (images in this case) to which google had "real time access" at that particular time. So, that url is what u r after that is there in google's repository. Going to that url will definitely give u the real time images if it is meant to do so...

This is impossible. Google does not update its index instantaneously. Even if the camera takes a picture almost instantaneously and stores it on the webpage, Google will only update that page in the index over night.

I think we are talking about two different things here. If Google just gives you a link to an open webpage where your camera is updating the images in real time, then it is doing exactly what your intent was when you made the page public. In this case, I don't see what's surprising. Google is doing exactly what you would want it to do.

I repeat, Google *cannot* index in real time. All it can do is provide a link to a webpage (which it had previously indexed) which might be updated in real time. (I am pretty familiar with their setup given that I got a lot of these questions for my internship interview).

By indexed webpages, do not think of "cached" webpage, think abt the urls to access these webpages. Now, if these pages were meant to provide access/control over something then they will provide the same to u if they are open (security wise) to let google index them, provided u dont go to the cached versions, but to the actual urls...

Exactly !! This is the dichotomy I was talking about earlier. In any case, if the page controlling your printers are open (security-wise) on your website then you have got bigger problems than to worry about Google indexing them and making them available to the world. You are not going to be in business that long.

invincible · 01 Feb 2005

I think I read about the printer thing somewhere.
Google is not at fault here, its only acting as a medium to search for pages that can control a printer. Now thats only possible if that page is open as google cannot guess pages & index them on its own. So, the fault lies with the printer operators who have made their system in-secure.

No need to blame Google I guess.

nmadnani · 14 Feb 2005

invincible wrote:

No need to blame Google I guess.

Bingo !

If I may make a (rather simplifying) analogy, this is like saying that listing your phone number in the phone book can cause a havoc. If you don't want people to "call" you, don't give out your number.

Sorry to harp on this point, but the subject of the original post "even security cams arent [sic] secure with Google" makes it seem like Google is a tool that people can use to subvert the security of the webcam, when, in the first place, the webcam itself was not secure in any way.

nmadnani · 14 Feb 2005

Oops ! I accidentally deleted Shantanu's reply to my post where he basically pointed out that we are, in fact, in agreement and that he had posted this to bring awareness to this issue.

However, he said that he does not agree that people "intend" to leave these pages open, it's just that they are ignorant. Well, to that I say that anyone who works with computers in any way, shape or form should know that they almost always tend to do what you say and not what you mean Smile

Update: Shantanu has revived a shorter version of his post below. Sorry again for being delete-happy, Shantanu.

shantanu · 11 Feb 2005

@nitin, invincible: I made the same point my last post, but it got deleted accidently.. neways, cant write that all again as it was a bit long... the main point i said there was the same thing. The thread isnt meant to say anything against/for google.
It was meant as 2 things:
1. Just a time pass for ppl to see these cams
2. To let them know abt the large number of stupid ppl out their who leave sometimes sensitive devices (or info) open to the internet...